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From: dbongard@netcom.com (Dan Bongard)
Subject: Re: Quake, Violence, Guns, Constitution, et al
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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:29:50 GMT
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Ryan McGinnis (mcginnr@iastate.edu) wrote:
: On Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:55:08 GMT, dbongard@netcom.com (Dan Bongard) wrote:
:> Ryan McGinnis (mcginnr@iastate.edu) wrote:

:>: You really don't understand the principle of nature, do you?

:> We are now left with two choices: let the deer grow out of control,
:> let them destroy their own habitat, and let them die -- OR let 
:> hunters kill a few of them each year to keep the population where
:> it should be. 

: Let them grow out of control.  They will not all die.  Some will live --
: the fittest.  These will then rebuild and adapt.  

"The fittest" also survive when humans go hunting. If we follow your
logic, hunting is completely right and good...

Your problem is that you think "the fittest" means "deer that can
survive and reproduce under conditions of starvation and resource
scarcity". It means that, of course, but it also means "deer that
can avoid getting killed by their predators". Ie, humans.

Your opinion that it is somehow nicer to let a deer die slowly from 
starvation than it is to shoot it is truly sick. Letting the deer
starve hurts the other deer (since the starving deer still wastes
the available food supply while it lives), lets the deer suffer longer,
and serves no human purpose. Shooting a deer helps the other deer
(since the deer most likely to be killed are the slow ones who
are bad at hiding, the deer gene pool improves -- furthermore the
survivors have more available food, and hence can produce healthier
offspring), ends the deer's suffering quickly, and serves multiple
human purposes (food, ornamentation, recreation). 

: Oh, and the predators will increase in population as well. 

No, they won't. In most deer-heavy areas the predators don't exist
anymore. Furthermore it is not in our interests to allow a large
predator population (which will threaten humans and human livestock
and pets) when WE can serve the same function. It makes zero 
sense to import a bunch of wolves to hunt the deer (and hope that
you've introduced just the right number of wolves, since it is 
virtually impossible for environments as small as today's wilderness
areas to maintain stable predator-prey relationships) when humans
are quite capable of hunting the deer themselves. Are you one of
those deluded individuals who think it is somehow more moral for
a wolf to kill a deer than it is for a human to kill one?

: In fact, the ecosystem would have a much smaller
: headache were we to stop fucking with it.  (Won't happen)

That's right -- it won't happen. So we can either take useful action,
like allowing hunting of prey animals to maintain stable populations,
or we can stcik our heads in the sand, ban hunting, and let everything
go to hell while bemoaning the wretched state of the environment.

-- Dan
